.

Column: Know How Much Your Teachers Make

You can be nosey, or you can use the data to become a better citizen.

Last week, the New Jersey Department of Education released its database of school salaries. This has become an annual rite, usually at the end of or soon after the end of the school year.

The information includes years of experience, educational degrees, job titles and, of course, the salary for every professional public school employee in the state. That means teachers, principals, superintendents, librarians, guidance counselors and others.

It provides fodder for news stories.

It gives citizens specifics about how tax dollars are being spent.

And it ticks off more than a few educators who are appalled that their salaries are being publicized for their neighbors, friends and all the world to see.

Used to be, pre-Internet, newspapers would print the salaries of the highest paid employees in, or along with, a story.

Now, all the salaries wind up online fairly quickly in searchable databases. It’s not uncommon for a Google search for a public educator to turn up the salary information from one of these databases.

More than one school worker has complained this is an invasion of privacy. The topic even came up recently on a journalism discussion list, with reporters arguing both sides of the issue.

But there’s really nothing to discuss. As long as public tax dollars are paying the salaries, they need to be public.

The universal taunt by those who dislike having the world know how much they earn at those in the press who post the salaries is this: You should put your own salary on the Internet or in the paper.

Sure, as soon as the government uses tax dollars to support journalists’ salaries (and in order to keep a viable Fourth Estate, this day may be coming). Note: Patch will be publishing lists of salaries for public school educators shortly; a breakdown of average salaries in nearby towns is below.

As an aside, most of those in schools also don’t know that the vast majority of local news reporters in New Jersey make far less than even the average teacher.

That average for the 2010-11 school year was $65,872 in Somerset County, $68,329 in Morris, $69,382 in Sussex and almost $70,000 in Passaic. The average administrator makes a third to a half more. Almost 100 got more than $200,000 in salary alone with the highest paid, the superintendents in Newark and Cherry Hill, getting $275,000.

Equally interesting, the average salary paid to a new, non-tenured teacher in his first, second, or third year of teaching—usually no more than a few years out of college—was $49,461 in New Jersey this past year. Bridgewater-Raritan, Butler, the Chathams, Morris Plains, Montville, Parsippany, Warren Township, Washington Township all paid a brand new teacher with a bachelor’s degree and no experience more than $50,000. Unless there is a mistake (and occasionally the database has errors), an alternate route computer teacher with a bachelor’s degree at Morristown High School received more than $71,000 in his or her first year of teaching this past year.

This is all important information to know.

We have an open system of democracy. We are all supposed to be involved in our governments, although most people sadly do little more than gripe over the backyard fence about how high their taxes are.

And so we should have access to as much information as possible about how government operates and spends our money.

Once you know the averages and some of these details, and what others in comparably sized districts with about the same amount of experience earn, you can have an intelligent discussion about salaries, including who deserves a raise and who is being overpaid.

New Jersey does not have the best public records law—if you live in Florida, your life is a virtual open book—but the release of education salaries is one area in which the state gets it right.

So take advantage of the data and use it to become at least better informed but, hopefully, a better citizen.

Average Teacher Salaries in Morris, Somerset, Sussex and Passaic counties:

District Name Average Teacher Salary
ANDOVER REGIONAL  $65,918 BEDMINSTER TOWNSHIP  $65,607 BERNARDS TOWNSHIP  $62,822 BLOOMINGDALE  $65,996 BOONTON TOWN  $63,050 BOONTON TOWNSHIP  $69,656 BOUND BROOK BOROUGH  $60,518 BRANCHBURG TOWNSHIP  $63,815 BRIDGEWATER-RARITAN REGIONAL  $66,969 BUTLER  $65,714 BYRAM TOWNSHIP  $62,876 CHESTER TOWNSHIP  $61,725 CLIFTON  $64,345 DENVILLE TOWNSHIP  $61,735 DOVER TOWN  $66,428 EAST HANOVER TOWNSHIP  $68,781 EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION OF MORRIS COUNTY  $58,478 FLORHAM PARK  $58,899 FRANKFORD TOWNSHIP  $69,328 FRANKLIN BOROUGH  $61,911 FRANKLIN TOWNSHIP  $66,183 FREDON TOWNSHIP  $57,945 GREEN BROOK TOWNSHIP  $55,219 GREEN TOWNSHIP  $67,774 HALEDON  $61,473 HAMBURG BOROUGH  $60,244 HAMPTON TOWNSHIP  $67,285 HANOVER PARK REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT  $68,548 HANOVER TOWNSHIP  $67,036 HARDING TOWNSHIP  $57,605 HARDYSTON TOWNSHIP  $65,489 HAWTHORNE  $63,233 HIGH POINT REGIONAL  $75,997 HILLSBOROUGH TOWNSHIP  $68,492 HOPATCONG BOROUGH  $73,044 JEFFERSON TOWNSHIP  $64,162 KINNELON BOROUGH  $72,759 KITTATINNY REGIONAL  $73,347 LAFAYETTE TOWNSHIP  $52,790 LAKELAND REGIONAL  $76,798 LENAPE VALLEY REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT  $71,995 LINCOLN PARK BOROUGH  $69,957 LITTLE FALLS TOWNSHIP  $64,711 LONG HILL TOWNSHIP  $61,590 MADISON  $69,550 MANVILLE BOROUGH  $55,696 MENDHAM BOROUGH  $59,969 MENDHAM TOWNSHIP  $65,380 MINE HILL TOWNSHIP  $58,607 MONTAGUE  $59,980 MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP  $65,531 MONTVILLE TOWNSHIP  $69,355 MORRIS COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $71,400 MORRIS HILLS REGIONAL  $75,611 MORRIS PLAINS  $62,767 MORRIS SCHOOL DISTRICT  $75,349 MOUNT ARLINGTON  $59,981 MOUNT OLIVE TOWNSHIP  $68,194 MOUNTAIN LAKES  $72,116 NETCONG  $66,566 NEWTON  $66,494 NORTH HALEDON  $63,843 NORTH PLAINFIELD BOROUGH  $62,372 OGDENSBURG BOROUGH  $54,645 PARSIPPANY-TROY HILLS TOWNSHIP  $72,149 PASSAIC CITY  $75,600 PASSAIC COUNTY EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION  $52,863 PASSAIC COUNTY MANCHESTER REGIONAL  $69,633 PASSAIC COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $77,705 PASSAIC VALLEY REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT #1  $70,341 PATERSON  $68,716 PEQUANNOCK TOWNSHIP  $65,252 POMPTON LAKES  $69,183 PROSPECT PARK  $64,471 RANDOLPH TOWNSHIP  $68,419 RINGWOOD  $66,272 RIVERDALE  $49,192 ROCKAWAY BOROUGH  $57,320 ROCKAWAY TOWNSHIP  $67,755 ROXBURY TOWNSHIP  $69,766 SANDYSTON-WALPACK TOWNSHIP  $51,663 SCH DIST OF THE CHATHAMS  $67,699 SOMERSET COUNTY EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION  $61,830 SOMERSET COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $66,963 SOMERSET HILLS REGIONAL  $73,911 SOMERVILLE BOROUGH  $70,792 SOUTH BOUND BROOK BOROUGH  $63,617 SPARTA TOWNSHIP  $73,246 STANHOPE BOROUGH  $59,966 STILLWATER TOWNSHIP  $66,454 SUSSEX COUNTY EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION  $43,495 SUSSEX COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $67,709 SUSSEX-WANTAGE REGIONAL  $65,971 TOTOWA  $67,866 VERNON TOWNSHIP  $74,631 WALLKILL VALLEY REGIONAL  $81,578 WANAQUE  $73,216 WARREN TOWNSHIP  $66,429 WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP  $68,442 WATCHUNG BOROUGH  $60,593 WATCHUNG HILLS REGIONAL  $71,965 WAYNE TOWNSHIP  $72,145 WEST MILFORD TOWNSHIP  $74,911 WEST MORRIS REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT  $71,053 WHARTON BOROUGH  $62,420 WOODLAND PARK  $64,964

Average Administrator Salaries in Morris, Somerset, Sussex and Passaic Counties:

 District Name
 Average Salary
ANDOVER REGIONAL  $114,565 BEDMINSTER TOWNSHIP  $117,845 BERNARDS TOWNSHIP  $125,251 BLOOMINGDALE  $129,997 BOONTON TOWN  $127,829 BOONTON TOWNSHIP  $117,118 BOUND BROOK BOROUGH  $124,628 BRANCHBURG TOWNSHIP  $133,193 BRIDGEWATER-RARITAN REGIONAL  $134,384 BUTLER  $123,692 BYRAM TOWNSHIP  $106,932 CHESTER TOWNSHIP  $126,803 CLIFTON  $119,081 DENVILLE TOWNSHIP  $113,795 DOVER TOWN  $111,994 EAST HANOVER TOWNSHIP  $119,952 EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION OF MORRIS COUNTY  $119,288 FLORHAM PARK  $132,819 FRANKFORD TOWNSHIP  $108,033 FRANKLIN BOROUGH  $122,247 FRANKLIN TOWNSHIP  $111,300 FREDON TOWNSHIP  $103,375 GREEN BROOK TOWNSHIP  $141,483 GREEN TOWNSHIP  $89,128 HALEDON  $112,901 HAMBURG BOROUGH  $96,250 HAMPTON TOWNSHIP  $121,425 HANOVER PARK REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT  $136,724 HANOVER TOWNSHIP  $126,429 HARDING TOWNSHIP  $121,780 HARDYSTON TOWNSHIP  $101,875 HAWTHORNE  $125,165 HIGH POINT REGIONAL  $112,912 HILLSBOROUGH TOWNSHIP  $119,855 HOPATCONG BOROUGH  $122,261 JEFFERSON TOWNSHIP  $122,237 KINNELON BOROUGH  $133,045 KITTATINNY REGIONAL  $108,736 LAFAYETTE TOWNSHIP  $94,747 LAKELAND REGIONAL  $126,223 LENAPE VALLEY REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT  $116,792 LINCOLN PARK BOROUGH  $120,618 LITTLE FALLS TOWNSHIP  $120,101 LONG HILL TOWNSHIP  $117,961 MADISON  $124,079 MANVILLE BOROUGH  $123,620 MENDHAM BOROUGH  $138,836 MENDHAM TOWNSHIP  $127,225 MINE HILL TOWNSHIP  $85,967 MONTAGUE  $99,216 MONTGOMERY TOWNSHIP  $121,261 MONTVILLE TOWNSHIP  $136,031 MORRIS COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $131,906 MORRIS HILLS REGIONAL  $149,002 MORRIS PLAINS  $115,633 MORRIS SCHOOL DISTRICT  $129,971 MOUNT ARLINGTON  $114,510 MOUNT OLIVE TOWNSHIP  $126,120 MOUNTAIN LAKES  $136,953 NETCONG  $65,250 NEWTON  $123,010 NORTH HALEDON  $115,375 NORTH PLAINFIELD BOROUGH  $140,598 OGDENSBURG BOROUGH  $89,180 PARSIPPANY-TROY HILLS TOWNSHIP  $123,218 PASSAIC CITY  $126,992 PASSAIC COUNTY EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION  $70,509 PASSAIC COUNTY MANCHESTER REGIONAL  $124,257 PASSAIC COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $135,706 PASSAIC VALLEY REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT #1  $119,998 PATERSON  $107,259 PEQUANNOCK TOWNSHIP  $129,854 POMPTON LAKES  $139,057 PROSPECT PARK  $135,862 RANDOLPH TOWNSHIP  $129,104 RINGWOOD  $103,384 RIVERDALE  $127,735 ROCKAWAY BOROUGH  $112,254 ROCKAWAY TOWNSHIP  $140,885 ROXBURY TOWNSHIP  $118,603 SANDYSTON-WALPACK TOWNSHIP  $105,000 SCH DIST OF THE CHATHAMS  $129,485 SOMERSET COUNTY EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION  $133,548 SOMERSET COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $115,977 SOMERSET HILLS REGIONAL  $131,222 SOMERVILLE BOROUGH  $123,780 SOUTH BOUND BROOK BOROUGH  $111,203 SPARTA TOWNSHIP  $124,640 STANHOPE BOROUGH  $105,074 STILLWATER TOWNSHIP  $115,848 SUSSEX COUNTY EDUCATIONAL SERVICES COMMISSION  $89,000 SUSSEX COUNTY VOCATIONAL SCHOOL DISTRICT  $113,387 SUSSEX-WANTAGE REGIONAL  $112,454 TOTOWA  $122,563 VERNON TOWNSHIP  $122,523 WALLKILL VALLEY REGIONAL  $119,515 WANAQUE  $147,021 WARREN TOWNSHIP  $130,452 WASHINGTON TOWNSHIP  $118,176 WATCHUNG BOROUGH  $135,734 WATCHUNG HILLS REGIONAL  $132,277 WAYNE TOWNSHIP  $133,695 WEST MILFORD TOWNSHIP  $123,283 WEST MORRIS REGIONAL HIGH SCHOOL DISTRICT  $155,762 WHARTON BOROUGH  $108,609 WOODLAND PARK  $128,404

Colleen O'Dea is a writer, editor, researcher, data analyst, web page designer and mapper with almost three decades in the news business. Her column appears Mondays.

john anthony prignano September 14, 2012 at 11:05 PM
I left something out. State Senator Richard Codey is a big supporter of public schools. Both of his children went to Montclair Kimberly .Senator Codey's wife is a teacher in the West Orange Public School System
stacie bohr September 14, 2012 at 11:08 PM
Well, John….first of all my name is Stacie, not Staci. It’s right next to my picture. I did not say that teachers choosing to place their children in private schools is any of my business. My question to you was, it is my business why? Quite the contrary. They are parents who have every right to do what they want with their children and it is not my place to judge nor condemn them for doing what they feel is right for their family. Nobody will dictate my parental choices ever and therefore I will dictate to no one else. You have made complaints about the teacher salaries in the private school sector. The last time I checked, Del Barton wasn’t holding a gun to anyone’s head to teach there vs. teaching in the public sector. So what’s your point? I respect your opinion, have my own for the reasons that I have presented and I stick by them. With every example I have given you on a personal level as to why I have such respect for the staffing at the schools that my children are in, do you have examples (other than financial statistics and percentages) as to your disdain? You anger/hatred sounds more personal than simply quoting numbers you disagree with.
john anthony prignano September 15, 2012 at 02:28 AM
Stacie I'm sorry I misspelled your name. Do you feel the word hypocrite should be eliminated from the English language? You too judge teachers, but you use superlatives while I use pejoratives. Like I said, if you're happy, I'm happy. Every time someone shows terrible economic numbers,we hear, "Teacher DESERVE a raise " "Bashing teachers lowers their morale, we need to show them how much we appreciate them, and not just in words, but in their paychecks." "If we don't pay more and more, Districts that do will get the best teachers " "We mustn't put a price tag on education " Some people do. It's called private school tuition. Now if someone accepts as fact the economic wasteland of hard data I've described and still thinks they should get ANY raise at all, then I think they really stink on ice. Great education, lousy education, Stacie, EVERYBODY'S BROKE !.What do their employers "deserve?" Having their employees put them on the unemployment line via moonlighting in the private- sector? For all intents and purposes, there is no "High- tech, hyper- competitive, 21st century global economy " to prepare students for.. 58% of all jobs created since 2009 pay between $9.50 an hour and $13.50 an hour..Stacie,can you make a connection between the rise of the employees to the decline of the employers? Out of about two dozen close family members,over a dozen were or are in public education. As to personal examples, those are for me to know and you to find out. P.S. Delbarton is one word
Jon September 15, 2012 at 03:51 AM
WEST MORRIS REGIONAL avg. salary $156K for administrators?! Anybody else besides me see anything wrong with that??
Time4Dick2Go September 15, 2012 at 04:02 AM
Dick Codey is a big supporter of Public School Teacher Unions. He's never done a thing to cross them, and if he's ever elected governor you can be sure he'll give them anything/everything they want. Tenure Reform - Gone, Property Tax Levy Caps - Gone, Health Care and Pension Reform - Gone, School Funding Reform - Gone. He keeps complaining about "the Bosses," but he fails to tell us the Real Truth - The NJEA is the Biggest Boss of All, and he is 110% beholden to them.
john anthony prignano September 15, 2012 at 04:40 AM
Time4Dick2go You are correct !!! Dick Codey had some of the lowest performing public schools in New Jersey in his old District. He never said a single word about it ,lest he offend the Teacher's Union.He does not care about the students. Could you imagine Dick Codey of all people supported the implementation of a mandated Character Curriculum for the public schools.This should be the entire curriculum;" I'm Dick Codey. Carefully observe my behavior and then do the exact opposite". He's also a huge advocate for several hours of unpaid community service as a requirement forHigh School Graduation .He's made lofty statements about the life lessons it will teach students .What it will really do is give students great insight into their futures; Being coerced to work for the State for no pay.Time4Dick2go, you're right about him and his nonsense about "Party Bosses" He wants the uninitiated to believe that "Dick Codey has the guts and integrity to fight back against the corrupt political machines and party bosses that are destroying his beloved home State" He's absolutely shameless.How about his career as an undercover operative? That was beyond words.The damage he has done to New Jersey is beyond estimation.He's the most wasteful, callous, self- absorbed special interest puppet I've ever seen,bar none.Time4Dick2go, great post
Time4Dick2Go September 15, 2012 at 05:13 AM
What Dick isn't a supporter of is his tax paying constituents. The municipalities in his district are probably the most overtaxed people on Earth. They pay almost 100% of their own school districts' costs, and then state takes all their Income Taxes and ship them off to all the "former" Abbott districts, rather than back to them in the form of aid or rebates, as was originally intended when the Income Tax was passed. Dick was there at the Birth of the Income Tax. He was there, time after time, when the NJ Supremes ruled again and again that there was NO amount of money that was too much for the 31 Worst Districts in the state. Why did they fail, not enough money. Give them MORE! Codey should be ashamed. By then again, why should he. The lemmings in his district keep electing him. Not sure how anyone in Millburn, Livingston, West Orange or any of the other suburban voters/taxpayers in his Essex and Morris county district can look at their Income and Property Tax bills and not vote for ABC - Anyone But Codey. It is . . . Time 4 Dick 2 Go!
Time4Dick2Go September 15, 2012 at 05:13 AM
Codey's biggest legislative accomplishment when he was serving as acting governor - Passing and signing "legislation that provided that a person who serves as Acting Governor for a continuous period of at least 180 days will be "Governor of the State of New Jersey" for official and historical purposes. This law was made retroactive to 2001, covering Codey's service." What a guy. Had to make sure that he'd get his own oil painting in the state capitol.
stacie bohr September 15, 2012 at 01:33 PM
John Anthony....thank you re: my name...it's a pet peeve of mine. I'm not exactly sure why my opinion by speaking in the superlative is condusive to being a hypocrite but that really doesn't matter to me. I do not feel the word should be removed from he English language but at least I know what the definition of it is and it most certainly doesn't apply to one word that I have written. And with regard to you being happy if I'm happy, that's really not necessary. This is a matter of opinion. You have yours and I have mine. And as I stated earlier in the thread, I respect yours. But you are correct, I am happy.
Thomas Lotito September 15, 2012 at 01:51 PM
Shocking isn't it? The real sin about administrators positions is that there is layer upon layer. And don't forget 100 plus K per year janitors too.
john anthony prignano September 15, 2012 at 02:05 PM
Stacie I wasn't calling YOU a hypocrite
stacie bohr September 15, 2012 at 02:08 PM
This may not be a popular thing to say but I don't. Multiple degrees and certifications, years and years of working their way up...what is wrong with that? I hate to sound like a broken record but one of our closest friends is an administrator and my opinion is not based on the "love" for the family. I see, first hand, what he does...it is not sitting behind a desk twirling a pencil. He, specifically, is "on call" on a very regular basis. He works his butt off during the "school" day, is present for pretty much anything and everything involving the kids, is a mentor to many, and takes a lot of time away from his family to effectively due his job. And you know what...I have never heard him complain about it. So, no....$156k is not exhorbitant for someone who has dedicated their life since graduating from college in a profession that they do well and are extremely effective in.
stacie bohr September 15, 2012 at 02:13 PM
Sorry, John. Lost in translation yet again!
Bob Fenster September 15, 2012 at 05:43 PM
You keep sucking me back in, but I simply have to point out a few things. You conveniently set up arguments to benefit your position, and building conclusions off of either incorrect or arguable premises. It's a classic ploy, repeating something as fact enough times that your opponents cede ground instead of calling you on your nonsense. You've said numerous times that teachers put their kids into private schools at a rate of 2:1 compared to the rest of the public. I asked for your source on this and your response was that I should look it up. That's not how debating works. You're making a fairly outlandish statement, it's on you to prove it. Show me an unbiased source and I'll admit I'm wrong, but until that time I believe you're either misinformed or deliberately misrepresenting reality. I'm not sure what vouchers have to do with this discussion, but I can tell you why I opposed them. Vouchers don't benefit the people who are the worst off economically as they would only pay a portion of private school tuition. In addition, what do you do with the kids who are still left behind in the failing public school? You know how it's the business of teachers? Because we care about education, we care about kids, and obviously we know more than you do about how it works.
Bob Fenster September 15, 2012 at 05:46 PM
Another claim you make is about all the teachers who are "moonlighting," a term that's about as out-dated as "co-ed." Do you have a single statistic to backup your claim? I can reel off statistics too. 98% of public school teachers do not moonlight. 103% of teachers are awesome. Kind of silly, right? Ask me for my sources and my response will be "Go to the computer! My numbers are researched and documented."
john anthony prignano September 15, 2012 at 08:11 PM
Stacie West Orange High School has about 210 professional educators.40 of them teach a total of 3 classes.West Orange spends over $21k per student. . Madison High School has 82 professional educators..25 of them teach a total of 27 classes.Fifteen teach a total of zero classes,eight teach three classes each,one teaches one class, and one teaches 2 classes.Teaching has always been considered a "Calling " My line is " Few are Called, many more are chosen". West Orange hires Administrators right off the street, or promotes people with no teaching experience.OFTEN ,they are not even Highly Qualified. Stacie, we are drowning in a sea of highly compensated,non- supervisory coordinators, various curriculum coaches and specialists, consultants,counselors, substance abuse coordinators, in school suspension officers, department heads,ad infinitum NONE of whom teaches a single class.Why is that? The now retired head of the guidance department was also a university professor. So he taught on days West Orange High School was in session, just not at West Orange High School. Maybe he needed to supplement his $1,000 a day compensation package. All of these people I've listed can teach at least a few classes a day. Madison High is no different. $21k+ a year per student. I looked at about 20 Districts. Of those 20 Districts,.West Orange has the lowest ratio of students to administrators, and OF COURSE the largest average class size.Teachers teaching, a radical concept who's time has come .
john anthony prignano September 15, 2012 at 09:11 PM
Stacie I just read what you wrote about your administrator friend. Kudos to him.Staci, AGAIN ,you use only totally subjective terms {regarding a close family friend} - dedication,devotion to duty, highly efficient,..and I say AGAIN,3 million New Jerseyans make $34,300 or less,and their take - home pay is shrinking.30% of people with jobs rely on food stamps,up from 19% in 1990.There is 9.8% unemployment. 21% of all jobs lost in the 2008 retraction paid between $9.50 an hour and $13.50 an hour. 58% of all jobs created since June,2009 are low - skilled and pay between $9.50 an hour and $13.50 an hour.75% of all the new wealth created in the last decade was earned by the top 20%; families earning$132k or more. How does your administrator friend's long hours and butt busting efforts put more money into the pockets of all these millions of people I've described? When I show many very grim economic statistics, it starts;"He works hard,he's dedicated, he goes above and beyond.." He's also one of the top 20% who have earned 75% of all the new wealth created in New Jersey in the last decade. And his salary increases are not derived from stock dividends or the rise in the price of gold.His salary increases come from TAX DOLLARS ,Again, do you see a connection between the rise of one group to the decline of another? People are broke! What we can afford to pay ALWAYS trumps quality. " So much money has gone into preparation,there is nothing left to prepare people for " . .
john anthony prignano September 15, 2012 at 09:20 PM
Stacie I want to ask you, Would you like to see your children pursue careers in public education? Do you encourage them to pursue public education as a career path? Have any of your children expressed a desire to be a public school teacher? Does your Administrator friend have any specific role or general influence in the hiring process ?
steve revette September 15, 2012 at 09:41 PM
John is right. I can't talk about other schools but my own school district. It's all suppose to be a balancing act our ECONOMY sucks right now. Taxpayers are broke people are losing their homes. Personally I'm doing fine finacially but other people aren't so lucky. We are all doing more with less there's no reason teachers can do the same. EVERY Single job on this planet is important whether you think it's big or small even those minimum paying jobs at supermarkets. Also I've graduated pretty recently. Know how many of my teachers didn't even shjow up for their scheduled classes? They still get paid for that even though they chose to not even show up. Also what does an administrator actually do? I mean honestly why do we need so many? Stacie can you please explain to me what your friend does because I don't want to make a biased opinion on all administrators based on what the administraotrs in my town do.
john anthony prignano September 15, 2012 at 10:59 PM
Steve Thanks Here's what's going on around me right now ; A licensed realtor is working in a school cafeteria and she can't get full time. A friend just lost her job in the insurance industry after 20+ years..My son made 6 figures in car sales his first year.His second year he sold the same number of cars as his first year, but his commissions were cut by 30% - $70k.Year 3 was as productive as his first 2,but his commissions were cut by over 40%,so he made $40k. He and the dealership parted ways.A certified welder is stocking shelves at a supermarket. A friend is a college graduate.One day we got a phone call A woman from personnel wanted to ask us some questions; Is she reliable? Is she punctual? Is she courteous? etc. She got the job - in retail sales for less than $10 an hour That same friend's daughter had a baby. Her boyfriend would walk everyday to his job at the Dollar Store.One day,he just kept walking. In the past year,every single person we know who owns apartments has had to evict at least one tenant for non- payment of rent.My niece was working at a local ice cream parlor.They just folded.These are the employers of the people who "work hard" "who deserve raises" "who go above and beyond" How about their EMPLOYERS? What do they deserve? If, and I say if, they're employed, don't they work hard? Sure they do, but the people who are preparing the students for "The high - tech,hyper- competitive 21st century global economy " WHICH DOESN'T EXIST, couldn't care less.
Jon September 15, 2012 at 11:35 PM
That's all good, Stacie, but what I want to know is: Are the administrators in West Morris Regional THAT MUCH better than the administrators in all the other districts? Do they work THAT MUCH harder? What is it exactly that makes the West Morris Regional administrators worth so much more than the administrators in ALL the other districts? And in many cases, a *LOT* more. If other districts can hire effective administrators at an average salary of $100K or $120K, why does WM have to pay $156K for the same thing? And remember, that's the AVERAGE, so some are making more than that, and some are making less.
john anthony prignano September 16, 2012 at 01:44 AM
Steve Many years ago I had a conversation with a School Board member about school spending. She told me about all the unfunded mandates the rising costs of utilities and the Trenton bureaucracy and so on .I asked, " Does the State mandate longevity pay ? Does the State mandate 9 salary steps? Does the State mandate this District's salaries and this District's starting salaries? How about the Rolls Royce benefits package ? Full-time guidance counselors ? Early dismissals? She replied " No" . I said "You do all those things and lots more because you WANT TO." I said "You're not even trying to control costs ". She bristled at that statement. She said "Yes we are ! We privatized the cafeteria services!" I said " Right. Why pay a cafeteria worker $6 an hour when you can pay $5.And why pay teachers $100 an hour when you can pay them $125 an hour" Another year, everybody got a nice raise,...and they fired all the bus- aides. Overt contempt for working people! Millburn has eliminated Hazardous Route Courtesy Busing. Parents now have to pay $580 a year per child, with a cap of $1,160. A parent said ,"What can I do? I can't let my 6 year old walk over a mile to school.I've got to pay it" Other parents said essentially the same thing. Now if that's not a shakedown and a protection racket, what is ? And YES ! All the teachers and administrators got raises.You know why these kinds of things happen with such great regularity? Because they care. I mean they really, really care.. . .
stacie bohr September 16, 2012 at 05:10 PM
Happy Sunday, John! First of all...my opinion is not purely subjective as I knew this now friend before and had an objective opinion. Quite fankly, my opinion is still objective and that is why we are friends! With regard to what my children want to pursue...I will encourage them to pursue whatever the hell they want to! Now let me ask you a question....if your children chose a career in public education, would you forbid them from doing so? Again, it's just my opinion, but that would be WRONG. I encourage my kids to do what ever they want to do as long as they are honest and proud and work hard to attain their goals. I don't leverage them or who we associate with in any way. I respect the hard work my kids do and am pretty hopeful that what ever they choose to pursue, they will get there on merit and through hard work. JUST LIKE MY FRIEND DID!
stacie bohr September 16, 2012 at 05:29 PM
Hi, Steve. This is going to sound like the ultimate cop out and I don't want to be evasive but I won't define my friends position in the system on a forum such as this. It's not my place to do so and it wouldn't be right. What I can tell you is that he is a well educated man. He has devoted his life to his career. Does way more than what one would expect as an administrator or teacher. He is essential in our district and is EFFECTIVE. I have the utmost respect for him not only for his carreer path, but as a human being. I want my kids to be around him and am proud to call him my friend. I am grateful he is integral in our education system. I'm sorry if that doesn't really answer your question. It's not my job to "out" other people to prove my point if you know what I mean.
john anthony prignano September 16, 2012 at 06:12 PM
Stacie I never saw anyone who literally deifies public school educators like you do, who wasn't looking for a job or jobs in the system, either for themselves or family member{s}. .The words "friend" and "objective" don't work in the same sentence. Every time a politician hires someone close to them and someone accuses them of cronyism, they respond in this fashion; "He may be a close friend, but he's highly qualified and does a great job" I heard that from someone years ago regarding the Town Attorney. Not long after,the attorney was disbarred and forced to make restitution to clients he had stolen from.This same individual appointed his son Police Chief. The son had a poor track record.The son went to prison for tipping off drug dealers about an impending raid.My wife's nephew told his sister he hates people..He told my aunt the parents give him nothing but grief. He is a poorly educated, self-pitying,self-absorbed individual with no leadership skills whatsoever { just ask his wife }. But he has a very close friend in a high place, so last year he became the principal of a K-3 grammar school. He beat out 20 other applicants for the position .That's just not garden variety cronyism, that's an example of sadistic behavior.
john anthony prignano September 16, 2012 at 06:35 PM
Edward and Bob- September 14, 2012 "Almost 40% of Chicago teachers send their children elsewhere to learn.Chicago teachers make $71k to $76k a year, and they turned down raises of 16% -$11,360. These teachers have zero confidence in their own respective school system. Second, it shows that Chicago teachers are aware of the serial failure within the system. Chicago teachers instruct less than any large metro area in the country. .This union strike is about what most union strikes are about; give, me, more." Thomas B. Fordham Institute ,2004 - "12% of the public send their children to private schools, but more than one in five public school teachers send their children to private schools. Many high- profile politicians who are opposed to vouchers send their children to private schools ". A noted educator said, "If you want to improve violent, failing schools, just make the teachers put their children in those schools.You would see education and security overnight like you wouldn't believe" Lord, you gave them eyes but they will not see.
john anthony prignano September 16, 2012 at 08:54 PM
Stacie Happy Sunday to you! I didn't answer your question about my childrens' career paths.You have it backwards about who influenced who.It's what my children told me and showed me that greatly shaped my point of view, not the other way around. I'm originally from Newark. My wife is originally from Jersey City. We were optimistic and excited that our children would be attending a quality public school system.No such luck. 4 times I spoke to Administrators about teachers who were grading papers but not correcting them.One teacher's behavior was really egregious .She was grading tests that had blank answer places 100% correct. 2 teachers took more than a few 3 day weekends in November.Those days, combined with 4 early dismissals and the Thanksgiving Holiday, allowed those teachers to be in the school building for LESS than 50 hours for the entire month. I found out after the fact that one of my son's teachers said to the class,"You don't deserve to learn" and then he went on a sit - down strike for almost an entire semester..A Superintendent told me he speaks to many disaffected tenured teachers about working harder until he's blue in the face.He said usually they stare at the ceiling and then ask him if he's done.When he says yes,they walk out and return to the classroom unchanged.Stacie,Do you truly believe people with tenure who work for a government monopoly can really be at the top of their game? "We never run faster than when we're being chased" That's it for now.
stacie bohr September 16, 2012 at 09:33 PM
Alright John and Steve. Say you want, think want you want. Obviously I cannot give an answer that will suit you. What I will leave this at is that I am FAIR and I am OBJECTIVE, John. Steve...I never commented on my position with regard to tenure but if you want to know what it is, I think tenure is ridiculous. It's a protection bubble. The friend that I speak of is not fantastic at what he does because of tenure. He is fantastic at what he does because he is. That's all, nothing else. Enjoy the rest of your weekend, gentlemen.
john anthony prignano September 16, 2012 at 10:11 PM
Stacie You enjoy the rest of your.weekend too. We disagree on this ;YOU are FAIR and OBJECTIVE. All I can do is TRY really,really hard to be fair and objective. However,your comments on tenure once again prove how true the adage is - "Great minds think alike" Stacie,your friend is not fantastic at what he does because of tenure. He's fantastic at what he does IN SPITE of tenure.
stacie bohr September 16, 2012 at 10:15 PM
Nice to meet you, John!

Boards

More »
Got a question? Something on your mind? Talk to your community, directly.
Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors.What's on your mind?What's on your mind?Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell somethingPost something
See more »